The IUSB Vision Weblog

The way to crush the middle class is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation. – Vladimir Lenin

More on that budget deal: “Moderates vs Conservatives”

Posted by iusbvision on August 2, 2011

Be sure to see our previous post HERE.

It is always painful when people who call themselves conservative buy into the elite media narrative, or want to place party leadership on a pedestal so bad that they make arguments that they would normally never make.

From today’s Drudge Report:

MSNBC Hosts Unanimously Predict Obama’s Re-Election…

Palin, Bachmann rip Biden for calling Tea Partiers ‘terrorists’…

REID: Rise of Tea Party ‘very, very disconcerting’…

Now watch as this Republican parrots some of this same spin.

 

My original comment:

What I find interesting is that any plan that would actually have a real chance of preserving our AAA credit rating was painted as extreme.

We should not let pundits move the Overton Window and decide what is extreme and what is not.

There will be many impacts to losing AAA, including the US Govt having to pay so much more interest on the debt every year that the savings from debt ceiling agreement (to only increase spending by $7.4 trillion over the next ten years instead of the base line $9.5 trillion) will be used up. Losing AAA will also cause more economic suffering for the average person.

Marco Rubio said that his line in the sand is to have a solution that actually fixes the problem. When preserving our AAA credit is considered “extreme” there is something very wrong with someone’s perceptions.

Person suckered in by the elite media spin responds to the above:

Economics trump any & all talking heads & forms my opinion on domestic fiscal policy, in my world. Anything more than 4% in cuts at a time most certainly would cause more recession, possibly depression. [Note: Notice that this is a classic far left Krugman/Keynes position and she doesn’t realize it.] The LiberTEArians want one extreme (too many cuts all at once) the Democrats want the polar opposite extreme (NO cuts, more taxes). That’s ‘extreme’ to Center Right America.

Reality:

When the government cut spending drastically under Calvin Coolidge/Warren Harding it helped us out of the depression of 1920. Also when the governmment cut spending by 50% in 1947 from 1945 levels the economy boomed.

Also conversely, look at the 80% increase in federal spending just since FY 2008 and look at the economic performance, and look at the economic performance under the New Deal which was a total fail as non farm unemployment never dropped below 20% during the New Deal.

Look at welfare reform and the reductions in spending growth that happened with the John Kasich budgets under Bill Clinton. The economy improved again as well.

Your premise, based on outdated neo-Keynsian theory, is falsified by history.

The reason why government increases in spending do not have the desired Keynesian effect, is the same reason that reductions in govt spending do not have the predicted Keynesian impact; and that is because govt does not spend money for the purpose of economic impact or to aid the market where it needs aid the most. Politicians spend money for the purpose of political impact.

This is why you see things in econ textbooks such as “Okun’s Leaky Bucket Theory” and why government spending tends to result in a very low velocity of money (supporting LINK).

Person suckered in by the elite media spin:

Your pedantic tendencies are showing again… I am most certainly not a Keynesian ~ I’m with Paul Ryan & Charles Krauthammer. [NOTE: Paul Ryan & Charles Krauthammer never said that cutting spending would cause a depression; Paul Krugman says it every day.]

Reality:

That is great name calling, but that isn’t an argument. I also support Paul Ryan. For someone who claims not to be a Keynesian, you did a a great job of giving the typical Krugman/Keynes argument.

How many in 2010 got elected on taking the position that we should go back to 2008 spending levels? 2008 spending levels would still increase the yearly deficits by almost half a trillion a year – so that is not a “cut” nor is that even a spending freeze, it is just a reduction in the coming increases. So your entire notion that TEA party candidates or most new freshman argued for massive cuts is also just factually wrong.

Person suckered in by the elite media spin:

The fact still remains that TEA’s expectations exceed their ability to make any large meaningful changes with only controlling The House. The Ryan Plan would never have passed in this climate. The Smart Thing to do is get the best deal, that could be passed in a Dem controlled Senate & a Dem controlled WH, live to fight another day, win BIG in 2012, then & only then, can the necessary stepos be taken. LiberTEA’s unrealistic demands & damn the torpedos bravado, are hindering that goal. We can argue about the best next steps forward in January ’13, IF IF IF the LiberTEArians don’t thwart that most important goal with their divisive bullheaded bravado.

Reality:

I think you misunderstand my position in part. Many do not think that we got the best deal. I say that because look at what happened in Minnesota recently with the government shutdown there. It was all doom and gloom, the media said that people blamed Republicans… until the governor caved and the GOP’s poll numbers went up.

I think we should have tried to get a little better of a deal for another reason, if the Dems went passed August 2, and America saw that we would not default and Social Security checks would indeed go out (as the govt brings in almost 200 billion a month on revenue) Obama would have had egg all over his face and his scare tactics would have blown up in his face.

I very much understand that we cannot run the govt from just the House, but we were timid and operating form a position of fear because of what happened in 1998.

I never said “all or nothing, damn the torpedoes full speed ahead”; I am just saying that we could have done better.

My problem is with those who are wiping their feet on this deal to make it look like that the deal is rockin’awesome and that those who wanted more are somehow extreme.

In fact that whole way of looking at it works against us in 2012. We should just admit the truth and say that this was not a very good deal. We should explain how the Democrats insited on 7.4 trillion in NEW spending or they would shut everything down, how they threatened default and social security when it was unnecessary, we should tell people how the Democrats INSISTED on a deal that would NOT preserve AAA – that is a key point. 

What we should not be doing is saying that those who supported a deal that had a chance of preserving AAA are extremists, as that undermines our position in 2012. Paul Krugman is already saying that losing AAA is just fine.

You are trashing people in the Republican base who wanted to save AAA as extreme (some TEA Party people and other conservatives), instead of trashing Democrats whgo deserve to get trashed, and that plays right into Obama’s hands in 2012.

Person suckered in by the elite media spin:

At the MOST critical of times, TEA voted with Libertarians & the Democrats, voted AGAINST the GOP… Making them the RINOs they so clamorously hunt. That will not be forgotten by the electorate. This is a Center Right nation. I do not believe their constituents wanted them to risk turning the country against conservatives for advocating default by having completely unrealistic expectations in the political climate we currently find ourselves working within. Bulls in a China shop are never welcome, regardless of what side of the aisle they come from. But, I could be wrong, we’ll see what happens in their reelection bids, I suppose. [Note: How many important votes has the House voted on a bill or against a bill with the support of the entire party?]

Reality:

Hmm lets see Bachmann voted for the Patriot Act, Allen West just supported the budget deal. With that said, look at where that “TEA Party bullheadedness” has gotten us. Just a short time ago we were talking about Bailouts, stimulus, perhaps a stimulus II, massive multi-trillion dollar health care take overs, cap & trade, etc etc. Now the discussion is Balanced Budget Amendment, how much will be cut, entitlement reform and GOP stalwarts such as Haley Barbour are even talking about the ethanol scam and farm subsidy reform in IOWA of all places.

Stacy, the problem with what you are doing, besides that fact that it is helping Obama to get re-elected, is that you have got it in your brain somehow that most TEA Party folks are these Ron Paul loonies. While the Ron Paul loonies would like people to think that, it just isn’t the case, as the big polling outfits have polled them and done demograghics on them demonstrate this clearly.

Rasmussen:

48% Say Their Views Closer to Tea Party Than Congress

http://www.rasmussenreport​s.com/public_content/polit​ics/general_politics/april​_2011/48_say_their_views_c​loser_to_tea_party_than_co​ngress

In the ongoing budget-cutting debate in Washington, some congressional Democrats have accused their Republican opponents of being held captive by the Tea Party movement, but voters like the Tea Party more than Congress.

The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 48% of Likely U.S. Voters say when it comes to the major issues facing the country, their views are closer to the average Tea Party member as opposed to the average member of Congress. Just 22% say their views are closest to those of the average congressman. Even more (30%) aren’t sure. (To see survey question wording, click here .)

This shows little change from a survey in late March of last year . Forty-nine percent (49%) of voters think the Tea Party movement is good for the country, consistent with findings since May 2010 . Twenty-six percent (26%) disagree and say the grassroots, small government movement is bad for America. Sixteen percent (16%) say neither.

Person suckered in by the elite media spin:

That’s not to TEA’s credit. But, I find it fascinating that they are all about wanting to claim credit. As Reagan said, “There is no limit to the amount of good you can do if you don’t care who gets the credit.” Unfortunately, LiberTEA’s all about themselves. 2010 was a national referendum against Failed Liberal Governance. I was happy to have TEA join us in making history, handing the Dems a shellacking, UNTIL they started acting like Libertarians, in deed (voting with them & the Democrats) & in tactics (their constant disparaging of the GOP, RINO Hunting, etc). The LiberTEArians went after both West & Bachmann for those stances, too, I might add… It’s their way or assault. No thank you. [Note: TEA Party groups are cellular in nature and not all of them agree on every issue as to be expected, yet this person takes an elite media report saying that a cell, somewhere is unhappy about a vote and all of the sudden in her mind it is all of them. The fact is that Bachmann and West enjoy broad support.

Rasmussen is laughable. [Note: Notice no supporting evidence.] It is NOT the GOP causing the damage & divide, it is TEA. How many times has the GOP reached out in the spirit of unity to TEA only to draw back a nub? Too many. Still today, credit is being thrown to TEA for helping turn the national debate, etc, yet they still are combative. Again, it is NOT the GOP causing the divide. It is the LiberTEArians, as is their MO, thus far.

Reality:

Than you oppose Charles Krauthammer – because what I just said about how the TEA Party changed the debate is near exact quote from him from two days ago. Feel free to look up the video. [Note: fooled person said earlier that she believed in Charles Krauthammer, but now that Krauthammer is used to debunk her claim that the TEA Partry people deserve credit for changing the debate, as an emotionally charged person would, I predicted that she would dismiss him and it did not take long to have my prediction come to reality.]

Person suckered in by the elite media spin:

I repeat, “How many times has the GOP reached out in the spirit of unity to TEA only to draw back a nub? Too many. Still today, credit is being thrown to TEA for helping turn the national debate, etc, yet they still are combative.”

Reality:

Of course they are combative, that is how you change a debate. But hey, I am just sticking with Charles Krauthammer on this one. You really should watch him as he makes some great sense [Zing]. How dare those people who worked so hard to make 2010 happen actually stand up and fight for what they said they believe in such as balanced budgets and a change in the way Washington works. Why the nerve!

Person suckered in by the elite media spin:

I never miss him. And his throwing the LiberTEArian dog a bone was very nice of him. What did it get him? More LiberTEArian teenaged angst. [Note: So Krauthammer wasn’t serious he was just throwing them a bone. Mind reading must be her specialty.]

Reality:

How is the constant unsubstantiated name calling at a large portion of the base a plan for victory in 2012? It seems to me that some are TRYING to insult them and smear them to the point where they might consider voting for a third party.

Amazing isn’t it, the zeal to defend the attitude she got from the elite media. It goes to show just how effective elite media attitude change propaganda can be.

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